System locks up until InternetOpenURL call completes

[Dan]

I have an app that a lot of people use. It pulls down HTML from the
Internet using the following InternetOpenURL call in VB:

lngOpen = InternetOpen(scUserAgent, INTERNET_OPEN_TYPE_PRECONFIG,
vbNullString, vbNullString, 0)

If lngOpen <> 0 Then
lngOpenURL = InternetOpenUrl(lngOpen, strURL, vbNullString, 0, _
INTERNET_FLAG_RELOAD Or INTERNET_FLAG_NO_COOKIES Or _
INTERNET_FLAG_NO_CACHE_WRITE, 0)
End If

The above works fine on my test machines as well as on about 99% of my users
but occasionally I have one report that when it is pulling information from
the Internet their system becomes unresponsive until the call is completed.
It is normal for the program itself to become unresponsive while waiting for
the reply but these users report that THEIR ENTIRE COMPUTER SYSTEMS become
unresponsive. They can't open or use any other program while my program is
waiting for the response. I've never been able to reproduct this or
determine why this might be happening. Does anyone have any ideas what
could be causing the systems to lock up?

I have had some people suggest that I switch to asynchronous calls but I
really don't want to go that route. What I really need to know is why on
some computers the entire system is locked up and not just the program. If
there is some fix I can give my users so that their computers don't hang
during a synchrous InternetOpenUrl call is made (some Registry setting I
expect) it would be a real big help. Thanks!

[TedF]

Did you ask the users to clean Internet Temporary Files, Cookies,
and Temp folder, then see what happens ?

Post by Dan
I have an app that a lot of people use. It pulls down HTML from the
lngOpen = InternetOpen(scUserAgent, INTERNET_OPEN_TYPE_PRECONFIG,
vbNullString, vbNullString, 0)
If lngOpen <> 0 Then
lngOpenURL = InternetOpenUrl(lngOpen, strURL, vbNullString, 0, _
INTERNET_FLAG_RELOAD Or INTERNET_FLAG_NO_COOKIES Or _
INTERNET_FLAG_NO_CACHE_WRITE, 0)
End If
The above works fine on my test machines as well as on about 99% of my
users but occasionally I have one report that when it is pulling
information from the Internet their system becomes unresponsive until the
call is completed. It is normal for the program itself to become
unresponsive while waiting for the reply but these users report that THEIR
ENTIRE COMPUTER SYSTEMS become unresponsive. They can't open or use any
other program while my program is waiting for the response. I've never
been able to reproduct this or determine why this might be happening.
Does anyone have any ideas what could be causing the systems to lock up?
I have had some people suggest that I switch to asynchronous calls but I
really don't want to go that route. What I really need to know is why on
some computers the entire system is locked up and not just the program.
If there is some fix I can give my users so that their computers don't
hang during a synchrous InternetOpenUrl call is made (some Registry
setting I expect) it would be a real big help. Thanks!

[Dan]

Post by TedF
Did you ask the users to clean Internet Temporary Files, Cookies,
and Temp folder, then see what happens ?

No, that had not occurred to me. Why would the need to clear the cache,
cookies and temp folder cause a system to lock up during InternetOpenURL
calls?

[TedF]

Yes, if there is plenty of them.
I had situations were it took more than 5 minutes
clearing the Internet Temporary Files.

Post by Dan

Post by TedF
Did you ask the users to clean Internet Temporary Files, Cookies,
and Temp folder, then see what happens ?

No, that had not occurred to me. Why would the need to clear the cache,
cookies and temp folder cause a system to lock up during InternetOpenURL
calls?

[Scherbina Vladimir]

Hello, TedF.

I don't think that might influence on OS hunging when wininet function is
invoked. That might influence on GetTempFileName bevavour -
http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.win32.programmer.kernel/browse_thread/thread/e7bb986bf2ea6a79/b344c4376a8a25e1?lnk=st&q=any+issue+with+GetTempFileName&rnum=1#b344c4376a8a25e1
but on InternetOpenURL
--
Vladimir

Post by TedF
Yes, if there is plenty of them.
I had situations were it took more than 5 minutes
clearing the Internet Temporary Files.

Post by Dan

Post by TedF
Did you ask the users to clean Internet Temporary Files, Cookies,
and Temp folder, then see what happens ?

No, that had not occurred to me. Why would the need to clear the cache,
cookies and temp folder cause a system to lock up during InternetOpenURL
calls?

[Scherbina Vladimir]

Post by Scherbina Vladimir
but on InternetOpenURL

but *NOT* on InternetOpenURL
--
Vladimir

Post by Scherbina Vladimir
Hello, TedF.
I don't think that might influence on OS hunging when wininet function is
invoked. That might influence on GetTempFileName bevavour -
http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.win32.programmer.kernel/browse_thread/thread/e7bb986bf2ea6a79/b344c4376a8a25e1?lnk=st&q=any+issue+with+GetTempFileName&rnum=1#b344c4376a8a25e1
but on InternetOpenURL
--
Vladimir

[TedF]

A full temp folder will even give error opening a VB program without
connecting to the Internet.

Post by Scherbina Vladimir

Post by Scherbina Vladimir
but on InternetOpenURL

but *NOT* on InternetOpenURL
--
Vladimir

Post by Scherbina Vladimir
Hello, TedF.
I don't think that might influence on OS hunging when wininet function is
invoked. That might influence on GetTempFileName bevavour -
http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.win32.programmer.kernel/browse_thread/thread/e7bb986bf2ea6a79/b344c4376a8a25e1?lnk=st&q=any+issue+with+GetTempFileName&rnum=1#b344c4376a8a25e1
but on InternetOpenURL
--
Vladimir

[Dan]

Post by TedF
A full temp folder will even give error opening a VB program without
connecting to the Internet.

Yes, but again, why *specifically* would it cause the system to hang during
an InternetOpenURL call? The application isn't showing any errors in its
log file so no errors are being raised in the program. The system is just
behaving oddly (locking up) until the response is received. It's normal for
the program to become unresponsive. It's not normal for the entire OS to
become unresponsive.

I am loath to tell the user to clean Internet Temporary Files, Cookies, etc.
No offense Ted but in my experience that is exactly the answer that a
know-nothing technical support bozo on the phone suggests for any
Internet-related problem even when it clearly has nothing to do with cache
or cookies. I don't want my users to roll their eyes and decide I don't
know what I'm doing because I give them suggestions like that. Unless there
is someone who sees a logical connection I'm not putting that up on my
trouble-shooting page.

[Scherbina Vladimir]

Hello, Dan.

Yes, even if call of InternetOpenURL will fail (no resources, exception,
etc) there should not be any hunging of OS. That should influence only on
process that invokes InternetOpenURL function.

Again, I'm tending to the idea that something hooks this function. I had a
really bad expirience with antivirus that installed LSP and hooked
HttpSendRequest. The call never returned and all system was freezing for
some time.

So, my questions:

How much clients suffer from this problem?
What software is installed on their systems?
Are they corporate or home users?

If this bug does not repeat on your development PC then you have a problem.
Usually I resolve such problems using SoftIce and debugging the function
that causes the problem.

[Dan]

Post by Scherbina Vladimir
Hello, Dan.
Yes, even if call of InternetOpenURL will fail (no resources, exception,
etc) there should not be any hunging of OS. That should influence only on
process that invokes InternetOpenURL function.
Again, I'm tending to the idea that something hooks this function. I had a
really bad expirience with antivirus that installed LSP and hooked
HttpSendRequest. The call never returned and all system was freezing for
some time.
How much clients suffer from this problem?

Very very few. I would say less than 1% but it is hard to be certain.

Post by Scherbina Vladimir
What software is installed on their systems?

Unknown. I've never asked for an inventory from one of the users having the
problem.

Post by Scherbina Vladimir
Are they corporate or home users?

My product is a consumer product though some of my users do install it on
their work PCs. The last person to report the problem was using XP Pro
which increases the likelihood that they are at work.

Post by Scherbina Vladimir
If this bug does not repeat on your development PC then you have a problem.

Indeed! It's a rare problem but it drives me nutts when it is reported
since I can't fix what I can't reproduce. I was hoping that maybe someone
else who had the same problem would read my post and share the answer they
found. That this has not happened illustrates the rarity of the problem.

[Scherbina Vladimir]

I advice you to deploy "support" tool with your product. When your clients
met situation describe above let they run this tool. The main task of the
tool is to make snapshot of processes, registry entries where AV and other
stuff resides and send this report to your research center where you may
analyze it's content.

That's the way how usually such bugs are solved. Hope my advise will help
you.
--
Vladimir

Post by Dan

Post by Scherbina Vladimir
Hello, Dan.
Yes, even if call of InternetOpenURL will fail (no resources, exception,
etc) there should not be any hunging of OS. That should influence only on
process that invokes InternetOpenURL function.
Again, I'm tending to the idea that something hooks this function. I had
a really bad expirience with antivirus that installed LSP and hooked
HttpSendRequest. The call never returned and all system was freezing for
some time.
How much clients suffer from this problem?

Very very few. I would say less than 1% but it is hard to be certain.

Post by Scherbina Vladimir
What software is installed on their systems?

Unknown. I've never asked for an inventory from one of the users having
the problem.

Post by Scherbina Vladimir
Are they corporate or home users?

My product is a consumer product though some of my users do install it on
their work PCs. The last person to report the problem was using XP Pro
which increases the likelihood that they are at work.

Post by Scherbina Vladimir
If this bug does not repeat on your development PC then you have a problem.

Indeed! It's a rare problem but it drives me nutts when it is reported
since I can't fix what I can't reproduce. I was hoping that maybe someone
else who had the same problem would read my post and share the answer they
found. That this has not happened illustrates the rarity of the problem.

[Dan]

Post by Scherbina Vladimir
I advice you to deploy "support" tool with your product. When your clients
met situation describe above let they run this tool. The main task of the
tool is to make snapshot of processes, registry entries where AV and other
stuff resides and send this report to your research center where you may
analyze it's content.
That's the way how usually such bugs are solved. Hope my advise will help
you.

Thanks for the suggestion. It's a good idea.

[TedF]

That is what happens when you try to help an ignorant
sh!t head.
90% of computer problems are fixed by clearing the temp files,
and is the first step to do before going any further.
You are ignorant, I don't expect you to understand.

Post by Dan

Post by TedF
A full temp folder will even give error opening a VB program without
connecting to the Internet.

Yes, but again, why *specifically* would it cause the system to hang
during an InternetOpenURL call? The application isn't showing any errors
in its log file so no errors are being raised in the program. The system
is just behaving oddly (locking up) until the response is received. It's
normal for the program to become unresponsive. It's not normal for the
entire OS to become unresponsive.
I am loath to tell the user to clean Internet Temporary Files, Cookies,
etc. No offense Ted but in my experience that is exactly the answer that a
know-nothing technical support bozo on the phone suggests for any
Internet-related problem even when it clearly has nothing to do with cache
or cookies. I don't want my users to roll their eyes and decide I don't
know what I'm doing because I give them suggestions like that. Unless
there is someone who sees a logical connection I'm not putting that up on
my trouble-shooting page.

[Scherbina Vladimir]

Hello, Ted.

1. At first I want you to read the following link:
http://www.microsoft.com/communities/conduct/default.mspx#EID

2. I'm not sure that 90 % of computer problems are fixed by clearing temp
files. Can you shed light on that issue ? How InternetOpenUrl is connected
with temp files ? Can you prove that ?

My disassembler shows that InternetOpenUrlW inside manipulates with memory
using LocalAlloc, lstrlenW, WideCharToMultiByte functions to convert
unicode strings to ansi and then simply calls InternetOpenUrlA.

I don't see any manupulations with temp files in InternetOpenUrlA - it calls
directly internal functions that are not exported by wininet.dll.

[Paul Baker]

Vladimir,

I agree with you that Ted has used inappropriate language and is also
incorrect.

There is no reason why InternetOpenUrl should necessarily be connected to
temporary files in the C:\Documents and Settings\<user>\Local Settings\Temp,
although I am not ruling out the possibility and of course it may use the
cache in the Temporary Internet Folder, depending on the parameters.

I am a developer with a decade of experience in Windows programming and work
for a company which takes dozens of support calls a week. I have found that
deleting temporary files almost never resolves a problem. In fact, I
recently discussed this with the VP in charge of support. He felt that
sometimes deleting temporary files was offered as a solution when someone
was "stuck" and didn't know what they were doing as a last-ditch effort. He
wanted to confirm that with me.

There are only two types of problems I have seen proven to be attributed to
temporary files, and this is neither.
1. Temporary files are taking up a significant amount of disk space and
available disk space is so low that there is not enough available disk space
to create or grow a necessary file. In particular, there may not be enough
available disk space to grow the swap file sufficiently and an application
runs out of memory. This is accompanied by a "...virtual memory is low..."
message and a lot of swaps resulting in sudden loss of performance and hard
drive grinding.
2. A piece of software uses a non-unique name for a temporary file and fails
if the file already exists, which can happen if the software is run multiple
times, especially on abnormal terminaton.

I put "delete your temporary files" on the same level as "you have a corrupt
DLL", both the mantra of either an ignoramus or someone who is so smart as
to be able to prove that an exceptionally rare condition can truly be
attributed to the problem at hand. I have my opinions about which Ted is ;)

Paul

Post by Scherbina Vladimir
Hello, Ted.
http://www.microsoft.com/communities/conduct/default.mspx#EID
2. I'm not sure that 90 % of computer problems are fixed by clearing temp
files. Can you shed light on that issue ? How InternetOpenUrl is connected
with temp files ? Can you prove that ?
My disassembler shows that InternetOpenUrlW inside manipulates with memory
using LocalAlloc, lstrlenW, WideCharToMultiByte functions to convert
unicode strings to ansi and then simply calls InternetOpenUrlA.
I don't see any manupulations with temp files in InternetOpenUrlA - it
calls directly internal functions that are not exported by wininet.dll.
--
Vladimir

Post by TedF
That is what happens when you try to help an ignorant
sh!t head.
90% of computer problems are fixed by clearing the temp files,
and is the first step to do before going any further.
You are ignorant, I don't expect you to understand.

[Scherbina Vladimir]

Correct :)
--
Vladimir

Post by Paul Baker
Vladimir,
I agree with you that Ted has used inappropriate language and is also
incorrect.
There is no reason why InternetOpenUrl should necessarily be connected to
temporary files in the C:\Documents and Settings\<user>\Local
Settings\Temp, although I am not ruling out the possibility and of course
it may use the cache in the Temporary Internet Folder, depending on the
parameters.
I am a developer with a decade of experience in Windows programming and
work for a company which takes dozens of support calls a week. I have
found that deleting temporary files almost never resolves a problem. In
fact, I recently discussed this with the VP in charge of support. He felt
that sometimes deleting temporary files was offered as a solution when
someone was "stuck" and didn't know what they were doing as a last-ditch
effort. He wanted to confirm that with me.
There are only two types of problems I have seen proven to be attributed
to temporary files, and this is neither.
1. Temporary files are taking up a significant amount of disk space and
available disk space is so low that there is not enough available disk
space to create or grow a necessary file. In particular, there may not be
enough available disk space to grow the swap file sufficiently and an
application runs out of memory. This is accompanied by a "...virtual
memory is low..." message and a lot of swaps resulting in sudden loss of
performance and hard drive grinding.
2. A piece of software uses a non-unique name for a temporary file and
fails if the file already exists, which can happen if the software is run
multiple times, especially on abnormal terminaton.
I put "delete your temporary files" on the same level as "you have a
corrupt DLL", both the mantra of either an ignoramus or someone who is so
smart as to be able to prove that an exceptionally rare condition can
truly be attributed to the problem at hand. I have my opinions about which
Ted is ;)
Paul

Post by Scherbina Vladimir
Hello, Ted.
http://www.microsoft.com/communities/conduct/default.mspx#EID
2. I'm not sure that 90 % of computer problems are fixed by clearing temp
files. Can you shed light on that issue ? How InternetOpenUrl is
connected with temp files ? Can you prove that ?
My disassembler shows that InternetOpenUrlW inside manipulates with
memory using LocalAlloc, lstrlenW, WideCharToMultiByte functions to
convert unicode strings to ansi and then simply calls InternetOpenUrlA.
I don't see any manupulations with temp files in InternetOpenUrlA - it
calls directly internal functions that are not exported by wininet.dll.
--
Vladimir

Post by TedF
That is what happens when you try to help an ignorant
sh!t head.
90% of computer problems are fixed by clearing the temp files,
and is the first step to do before going any further.
You are ignorant, I don't expect you to understand.

[Paul Baker]

Vladimir,

I seem to have missed your earlier comments about InternetOpenUrl.

Are you saying that threads other than the one calling InternetOpenUrl are
not responding? What are the other threads doing?

Did deleting temporary files really solve the problem? If so, it might be
that it was a transient condition, eg. unusual network conditions. Is it
reproducible now?

Paul

Post by Scherbina Vladimir
Correct :)
--
Vladimir

ignoramus ... or someone who is so smart as to be able to prove ..... I
have my opinions about which Ted is ;)
Paul

[Scherbina Vladimir]

Hello, Paul.

Post by Paul Baker
Vladimir,
I seem to have missed your earlier comments about InternetOpenUrl.

You can easially take a look at my comments at web interface of a forum:
http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.inetsdk.programming.wininet/browse_thread/thread/295e06d560c64d04/654786645da27c9e#654786645da27c9e

Post by Paul Baker
Are you saying that threads other than the one calling InternetOpenUrl are
not responding? What are the other threads doing?

Nope, it's not my problem, read the whole thread attentivly - OP has a
notification from some of his customers that system is hunging when
InternetOpenUrl is invoked.

Post by Paul Baker
Did deleting temporary files really solve the problem? If so, it might be
that it was a transient condition, eg. unusual network conditions. Is it
reproducible now?

That's probably questions to OP.

Post by Paul Baker
Paul

[Paul Baker]

Vladimir,

Yes, it sounds like rare issue with InternetOpenUrl. If someone can
reproduce it, they can submit it to Microsoft, via support or an MVP.

I have been nominated as an MVP this year. If I am successful, I will join
the Source Licensing Program and look at the WinInet source code and see
what I can glean about its use of temporary files. Again, it definitely can
use Temporary Internet Files, it may not may not use temporary files in the
Temp folder.

My only experience of this kind of thing myself is that I had one customer
claim that their *application* reproducibly stops responding when making an
HTTP request, even a thread that was not involved in the request.

I wrote software that logged call stack information for each thread in the
process, and found that he main thread which contains all the UI was
apparently responding normally to messages and the thread that was making
the request was calling HttpSendRequestEx -> ordinal 101 ->
InternetTimeFromSystemTime -> WaitForSingleObject. If only I knew what
object it was waiting for, that might explain why the thread making the
request is not responding, at least. Waiting for an HTTP response perhaps?
But why is it called from InternetTimeFromSystemTime? And what is unblocking
it if the HINTERNET handle is closed?

Paul

Post by Scherbina Vladimir
Hello, Paul.

Post by Paul Baker
Vladimir,
I seem to have missed your earlier comments about InternetOpenUrl.

http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.inetsdk.programming.wininet/browse_thread/thread/295e06d560c64d04/654786645da27c9e#654786645da27c9e

Post by Paul Baker
Are you saying that threads other than the one calling InternetOpenUrl

are

Post by Paul Baker
not responding? What are the other threads doing?

Nope, it's not my problem, read the whole thread attentivly - OP has a
notification from some of his customers that system is hunging when
InternetOpenUrl is invoked.

Post by Paul Baker
Did deleting temporary files really solve the problem? If so, it might be
that it was a transient condition, eg. unusual network conditions. Is it
reproducible now?

That's probably questions to OP.

Post by Paul Baker
Paul

--
Vladimir

[Scherbina Vladimir]

Paul,

Post by Paul Baker
Vladimir,
Yes, it sounds like rare issue with InternetOpenUrl. If someone can
reproduce it, they can submit it to Microsoft, via support or an MVP.

I think support will be enough here, but this example is really interesting
:) - http://blog.kalmbachnet.de/?postid=72

Post by Paul Baker
I have been nominated as an MVP this year. If I am successful, I will join
the Source Licensing Program and look at the WinInet source code and see
what I can glean about its use of temporary files. Again, it definitely
can use Temporary Internet Files, it may not may not use temporary files
in the Temp folder.

Take my congratulations !

Post by Paul Baker
My only experience of this kind of thing myself is that I had one customer
claim that their *application* reproducibly stops responding when making
an HTTP request, even a thread that was not involved in the request.
I wrote software that logged call stack information for each thread in the
process, and found that he main thread which contains all the UI was
apparently responding normally to messages and the thread that was making
the request was calling HttpSendRequestEx -> ordinal 101 ->
InternetTimeFromSystemTime -> WaitForSingleObject. If only I knew what
object it was waiting for, that might explain why the thread making the
request is not responding, at least. Waiting for an HTTP response perhaps?
But why is it called from InternetTimeFromSystemTime? And what is
unblocking it if the HINTERNET handle is closed?

Only debugging will shed light on such problems...

Post by Paul Baker
Paul

[Paul Baker]

Vladimir,

Post by Scherbina Vladimir
I think support will be enough here, but this example is really
interesting :) - http://blog.kalmbachnet.de/?postid=72

Yes, interesting. I don't use Visual Studio myself, but I get the gist.

Post by Scherbina Vladimir

I have been nominated as an MVP this year [...]

Take my congratulations !

Thank you :) It is just a nomination.

Post by Scherbina Vladimir
Only debugging will shed light on such problems...

Agreed. Though I may try to use WebEx (a remote control thingy) to verify
that my understanding of what is happening to this customer is accurate,
because something doesn't quite add up.

Paul

[Dan]

Post by Paul Baker
Did deleting temporary files really solve the problem? If so, it might be
that it was a transient condition, eg. unusual network conditions. Is it
reproducible now?

I've passed along the suggestion to one of the users that is having the
problem though I don't expect it to make a difference. Ted was unable to
give any logical reason why deleting temporary files would fix the problem
other than the ridiculous assertion that it fixes 90% of all computer
problems. If the user gets back to me and says it actually made a
difference I'll report it here.

[Paul Baker]

Dan,

Do me a favor - let's ignore Ted as he obviously has nothing helpful to add
to this.

Paul

Post by Dan

Post by Paul Baker
Did deleting temporary files really solve the problem? If so, it might be
that it was a transient condition, eg. unusual network conditions. Is it
reproducible now?

I've passed along the suggestion to one of the users that is having the
problem though I don't expect it to make a difference. Ted was unable to
give any logical reason why deleting temporary files would fix the problem
other than the ridiculous assertion that it fixes 90% of all computer
problems. If the user gets back to me and says it actually made a
difference I'll report it here.

[Dan]

Post by Paul Baker
Dan,
Do me a favor - let's ignore Ted as he obviously has nothing helpful to
add to this.

Agreed.

[TedF]

You are just another dum sh!t.

Post by Scherbina Vladimir
Hello, Ted.
http://www.microsoft.com/communities/conduct/default.mspx#EID
2. I'm not sure that 90 % of computer problems are fixed by clearing temp
files. Can you shed light on that issue ? How InternetOpenUrl is connected
with temp files ? Can you prove that ?
My disassembler shows that InternetOpenUrlW inside manipulates with memory
using LocalAlloc, lstrlenW, WideCharToMultiByte functions to convert
unicode strings to ansi and then simply calls InternetOpenUrlA.
I don't see any manupulations with temp files in InternetOpenUrlA - it
calls directly internal functions that are not exported by wininet.dll.
--
Vladimir

Post by TedF
That is what happens when you try to help an ignorant
sh!t head.
90% of computer problems are fixed by clearing the temp files,
and is the first step to do before going any further.
You are ignorant, I don't expect you to understand.

[Scherbina Vladimir]

Again, I'm asking you to read the following rules:
http://www.microsoft.com/communities/conduct/default.mspx#EID

.

[TedF]

buzz off !diot.

Post by Scherbina Vladimir
http://www.microsoft.com/communities/conduct/default.mspx#EID
.
--
Vladimir

Post by TedF
You are just another dum sh!t.

[Dan]

Post by TedF
That is what happens when you try to help an ignorant
sh!t head.
90% of computer problems are fixed by clearing the temp files,
and is the first step to do before going any further.
You are ignorant, I don't expect you to understand.

Ted, you must work at AOL technical support if you believe that 90% of all
computer problems are fixed by clearing temp files. I'm not the ignorant
one here.

[TedF]

You can call any support, they all ask to clear the
temp files first before going any further, if you don't
know that by now, then you are very ignorant.
You have zero experience in computers, you are not fit to be
a programmers, give support, or even be any where around
computers.

You have lots to learn, so don't make a fool out of
yourself and the ones trying to help you.

Post by Dan

Post by TedF
That is what happens when you try to help an ignorant
sh!t head.
90% of computer problems are fixed by clearing the temp files,
and is the first step to do before going any further.
You are ignorant, I don't expect you to understand.

Ted, you must work at AOL technical support if you believe that 90% of all
computer problems are fixed by clearing temp files. I'm not the ignorant
one here.

[Paul Baker]

Ted,

Yes, many support departments will say that a lot of the time. They too are
ignorant. You can rant on if you wish, but that's the last I'm going to say
on the matter

Paul

Post by TedF
You can call any support, they all ask to clear the
temp files first before going any further, if you don't
know that by now, then you are very ignorant.
You have zero experience in computers, you are not fit to be
a programmers, give support, or even be any where around
computers.
You have lots to learn, so don't make a fool out of
yourself and the ones trying to help you.

Post by Dan

Post by TedF
That is what happens when you try to help an ignorant
sh!t head.
90% of computer problems are fixed by clearing the temp files,
and is the first step to do before going any further.
You are ignorant, I don't expect you to understand.

Ted, you must work at AOL technical support if you believe that 90% of
all computer problems are fixed by clearing temp files. I'm not the
ignorant one here.

[J French]

Post by TedF
You can call any support, they all ask to clear the
temp files first before going any further, if you don't
know that by now, then you are very ignorant.
You have zero experience in computers, you are not fit to be
a programmers, give support, or even be any where around
computers.
You have lots to learn, so don't make a fool out of
yourself and the ones trying to help you.

Ok, I've been around a fair time

This is the first time I've heard a programmer suggest that solution.

[Bob O`Bob]

Post by J French
Ok, I've been around a fair time
This is the first time I've heard a programmer suggest that solution.

It seems the newsgroup has developed another troll to starve.
Please do your part in the future.



Bob
--

[J French]

On Fri, 17 Feb 2006 11:23:47 -0800, Bob O`Bob

Post by Bob O`Bob

Post by J French
Ok, I've been around a fair time
This is the first time I've heard a programmer suggest that solution.

It seems the newsgroup has developed another troll to starve.
Please do your part in the future.

C'mon Bob, we need a little entertainment :-}

[TedF]

Post by J French
Ok, I've been around a fair time

Apparently you have not.

Post by J French

Post by TedF
You can call any support, they all ask to clear the
temp files first before going any further, if you don't
know that by now, then you are very ignorant.
You have zero experience in computers, you are not fit to be
a programmers, give support, or even be any where around
computers.
You have lots to learn, so don't make a fool out of
yourself and the ones trying to help you.

Ok, I've been around a fair time
This is the first time I've heard a programmer suggest that solution.

[J French]

Post by TedF

Post by J French
Ok, I've been around a fair time

Apparently you have not.

How amusing - an omniscient troll

Or is it just a juvenile jerk ?

[TedF]

There are two types of programmers.
1) Knows Windows or operating system very well, then became a programmer.
2) Became a programmer with very little Windows knowledge.

The first would be a pro, the second will limp and needs
to be directed all the way through.
You and Dan fall in the second category, you still got lots to learn yet.
And I know many like you ad Dan.

Post by J French

Post by TedF

Post by J French
Ok, I've been around a fair time

Apparently you have not.

How amusing - an omniscient troll
Or is it just a juvenile jerk ?

[J French]

Post by TedF
There are two types of programmers.
1) Knows Windows or operating system very well, then became a programmer.
2) Became a programmer with very little Windows knowledge.
The first would be a pro, the second will limp and needs
to be directed all the way through.
You and Dan fall in the second category, you still got lots to learn yet.
And I know many like you ad Dan.

Give me a minute to laugh.

I was a programmer on machines that existed before you were born

- some guys here make me look young (well kind of)

You want to be careful where you are stepping, sunshine
- old gits know old tricks

It would give me great pleasure trampling on your head, AKA kicking
the sh*t out of you

Unfortunately the unwritten rule here is that we 'train up' the likely
lads - and discard cretins,

Are you a cretin ?

[TedF]

I am going to tell you how ignorant you are, you piece of
sh!t.
Every minute you call AOL it costs them about a dollar,
do you think they are that stupid to spend the time emptying
your temp files, which could take anywhere from 2 to 7 minutes.
Do you know how much that can add up at the end of the day ?
No they are not, every move AOL support give has been carefully
studied and engineered by very advanced OS specialists.
A dummy like you and DAN don't agree with AOL, that is
because you are both ignorant and acting like a bunch a$$holes.

Post by J French

Post by TedF
There are two types of programmers.
1) Knows Windows or operating system very well, then became a programmer.
2) Became a programmer with very little Windows knowledge.
The first would be a pro, the second will limp and needs
to be directed all the way through.
You and Dan fall in the second category, you still got lots to learn yet.
And I know many like you ad Dan.

Give me a minute to laugh.
I was a programmer on machines that existed before you were born
- some guys here make me look young (well kind of)
You want to be careful where you are stepping, sunshine
- old gits know old tricks
It would give me great pleasure trampling on your head, AKA kicking
the sh*t out of you
Unfortunately the unwritten rule here is that we 'train up' the likely
lads - and discard cretins,
Are you a cretin ?

[Scherbina Vladimir]

Ted, that fact that they're giving such advices does not mean that they're
correct.

Don't believe support(especially women :) ), I worked in a large software
company and do know what support think about users :)
--
Vladimir

Post by TedF
I am going to tell you how ignorant you are, you piece of
sh!t.
Every minute you call AOL it costs them about a dollar,
do you think they are that stupid to spend the time emptying
your temp files, which could take anywhere from 2 to 7 minutes.
Do you know how much that can add up at the end of the day ?
No they are not, every move AOL support give has been carefully
studied and engineered by very advanced OS specialists.
A dummy like you and DAN don't agree with AOL, that is
because you are both ignorant and acting like a bunch a$$holes.

Post by J French

Post by TedF
There are two types of programmers.
1) Knows Windows or operating system very well, then became a programmer.
2) Became a programmer with very little Windows knowledge.
The first would be a pro, the second will limp and needs
to be directed all the way through.
You and Dan fall in the second category, you still got lots to learn yet.
And I know many like you ad Dan.

Give me a minute to laugh.
I was a programmer on machines that existed before you were born
- some guys here make me look young (well kind of)
You want to be careful where you are stepping, sunshine
- old gits know old tricks
It would give me great pleasure trampling on your head, AKA kicking
the sh*t out of you
Unfortunately the unwritten rule here is that we 'train up' the likely
lads - and discard cretins,
Are you a cretin ?

[TedF]

Post by Scherbina Vladimir
Ted, that fact that they're giving such advices does not mean that they're
correct.

Then you are very ignorant also.
I have fixed many computers, connection problem,
download problem, secure access problems, page popup
by clearing temp files.
I have fixed many sluggish running windows by clearing the
temp files.
I have many computers error messages by clearing the temp files.

Post by Scherbina Vladimir
Ted, that fact that they're giving such advices does not mean that they're
correct.
Don't believe support(especially women :) ), I worked in a large software
company and do know what support think about users :)
--
Vladimir

Post by TedF
I am going to tell you how ignorant you are, you piece of
sh!t.
Every minute you call AOL it costs them about a dollar,
do you think they are that stupid to spend the time emptying
your temp files, which could take anywhere from 2 to 7 minutes.
Do you know how much that can add up at the end of the day ?
No they are not, every move AOL support give has been carefully
studied and engineered by very advanced OS specialists.
A dummy like you and DAN don't agree with AOL, that is
because you are both ignorant and acting like a bunch a$$holes.

Post by J French

Post by TedF
There are two types of programmers.
1) Knows Windows or operating system very well, then became a programmer.
2) Became a programmer with very little Windows knowledge.
The first would be a pro, the second will limp and needs
to be directed all the way through.
You and Dan fall in the second category, you still got lots to learn yet.
And I know many like you ad Dan.

Give me a minute to laugh.
I was a programmer on machines that existed before you were born
- some guys here make me look young (well kind of)
You want to be careful where you are stepping, sunshine
- old gits know old tricks
It would give me great pleasure trampling on your head, AKA kicking
the sh*t out of you
Unfortunately the unwritten rule here is that we 'train up' the likely
lads - and discard cretins,
Are you a cretin ?

[Scherbina Vladimir]

"if the world is against you, then something wrong with you..." (c) Freid
--
Vladimir

Post by TedF

Post by Scherbina Vladimir
Ted, that fact that they're giving such advices does not mean that
they're correct.

Then you are very ignorant also.
I have fixed many computers, connection problem,
download problem, secure access problems, page popup
by clearing temp files.
I have fixed many sluggish running windows by clearing the
temp files.
I have many computers error messages by clearing the temp files.

Post by Scherbina Vladimir
Ted, that fact that they're giving such advices does not mean that
they're correct.
Don't believe support(especially women :) ), I worked in a large software
company and do know what support think about users :)
--
Vladimir

Post by TedF
I am going to tell you how ignorant you are, you piece of
sh!t.
Every minute you call AOL it costs them about a dollar,
do you think they are that stupid to spend the time emptying
your temp files, which could take anywhere from 2 to 7 minutes.
Do you know how much that can add up at the end of the day ?
No they are not, every move AOL support give has been carefully
studied and engineered by very advanced OS specialists.
A dummy like you and DAN don't agree with AOL, that is
because you are both ignorant and acting like a bunch a$$holes.

Post by J French

Post by TedF
There are two types of programmers.
1) Knows Windows or operating system very well, then became a programmer.
2) Became a programmer with very little Windows knowledge.
The first would be a pro, the second will limp and needs
to be directed all the way through.
You and Dan fall in the second category, you still got lots to learn yet.
And I know many like you ad Dan.

Give me a minute to laugh.
I was a programmer on machines that existed before you were born
- some guys here make me look young (well kind of)
You want to be careful where you are stepping, sunshine
- old gits know old tricks
It would give me great pleasure trampling on your head, AKA kicking
the sh*t out of you
Unfortunately the unwritten rule here is that we 'train up' the likely
lads - and discard cretins,
Are you a cretin ?

[J French]

On Sat, 18 Feb 2006 21:29:29 +0200, "Scherbina Vladimir"

Post by Scherbina Vladimir
Ted, that fact that they're giving such advices does not mean that they're
correct.
Don't believe support(especially women :) ), I worked in a large software
company and do know what support think about users :)
--
Vladimir

Good point Vlad

I worked in a City SW House where we had a fair sized support
department.

One day I was down there when I heard them talking to a client about a
problem, although the product was not one of mine, it was clear what
was going on
- yet the bozo could not see it

After that we planted a programmer in the support department (on a
rota) to keep an eye on things.

[J French]

Post by TedF
I am going to tell you how ignorant you are, you piece of
sh!t.
Every minute you call AOL it costs them about a dollar,
do you think they are that stupid to spend the time emptying
your temp files, which could take anywhere from 2 to 7 minutes.
Do you know how much that can add up at the end of the day ?
No they are not, every move AOL support give has been carefully
studied and engineered by very advanced OS specialists.
A dummy like you and DAN don't agree with AOL, that is
because you are both ignorant and acting like a bunch a$$holes.

Well, well
- in my view only a jerk would use AOL

Back in 1996 I decided to check it out, I installed it, took one look
at it and removed it.

I closed my Compuserve account when they were bought by AOL

[TedF]

Post by J French
- in my view only a jerk would use AOL

You mean Dan is a jerk ?
I would say only dummies.
Dummies doesn't mean jerks.
A dummy could be a jerk, just like you and Dan.

Post by J French

Post by TedF
I am going to tell you how ignorant you are, you piece of
sh!t.
Every minute you call AOL it costs them about a dollar,
do you think they are that stupid to spend the time emptying
your temp files, which could take anywhere from 2 to 7 minutes.
Do you know how much that can add up at the end of the day ?
No they are not, every move AOL support give has been carefully
studied and engineered by very advanced OS specialists.
A dummy like you and DAN don't agree with AOL, that is
because you are both ignorant and acting like a bunch a$$holes.

Well, well
- in my view only a jerk would use AOL
Back in 1996 I decided to check it out, I installed it, took one look
at it and removed it.
I closed my Compuserve account when they were bought by AOL

[J French]

Post by TedF

Post by J French
- in my view only a jerk would use AOL

You mean Dan is a jerk ?
I would say only dummies.
Dummies doesn't mean jerks.
A dummy could be a jerk, just like you and Dan.

Are you a native English speaker ?
- if not, then apologies for the following :-

<following>

You are an incompetent troll
- you cannot 'inflate' an argument
- you can't even create a circular argument
- you appear ... rather thick

</following>

What I am going to do is feed you, and then abruptly drop you

Note to others:
I have a vindictive streak as well as a messianic one.
- I am not sure which is currently motivating me, but it is some time
since I've had a kick fest with a moron

[Dan]

Post by J French
Are you a cretin ?

Clearly he is both a troll and a cretin. He has also managed to hijack the
thread so how about we stop feeding him. The real pros will start ignoring
this thread if it continues on the path that Ted has steered it.

[TedF]

You bunch farts.

Post by Dan

Post by J French
Are you a cretin ?

Clearly he is both a troll and a cretin. He has also managed to hijack
the thread so how about we stop feeding him. The real pros will start
ignoring this thread if it continues on the path that Ted has steered it.

[J French]

Post by Dan

Post by J French
Are you a cretin ?

Clearly he is both a troll and a cretin. He has also managed to hijack the
thread so how about we stop feeding him. The real pros will start ignoring
this thread if it continues on the path that Ted has steered it.

Let's have a bit of fun with him

- it's quite interesting seeing how thick he is

[TedF]

Post by J French
Let's have a bit of fun with him
- it's quite interesting seeing how thick he is

You are a sick man.

Post by J French

Post by Dan

Post by J French
Are you a cretin ?

Clearly he is both a troll and a cretin. He has also managed to hijack the
thread so how about we stop feeding him. The real pros will start ignoring
this thread if it continues on the path that Ted has steered it.

Let's have a bit of fun with him
- it's quite interesting seeing how thick he is

[Stefan Berglund]

Post by TedF

Post by J French
Let's have a bit of fun with him
- it's quite interesting seeing how thick he is

You are a sick man.

Pot. Kettle. Black.

[Bob O`Bob]

Post by Stefan Berglund

Post by TedF

Post by J French
Let's have a bit of fun with him
- it's quite interesting seeing how thick he is

You are a sick man.

Pot. Kettle. Black.

Objection: "man" assumes numerous facts not in evidence.

[Dan]

Post by J French

Post by Dan

Post by J French
Are you a cretin ?

Clearly he is both a troll and a cretin. He has also managed to hijack the
thread so how about we stop feeding him. The real pros will start ignoring
this thread if it continues on the path that Ted has steered it.

Let's have a bit of fun with him
- it's quite interesting seeing how thick he is

How about baiting the troll in someone else's thread then?

[MikeD]

Post by Dan
How about baiting the troll in someone else's thread then?

It's not YOUR thread. The newsgroups are public. Basically, it's the entire
world's thread. But I do agree that the best way to deal with trolls (in
general) is to ignore them. If they can't get a reaction from people,
they'll just leave.

[Dan]

Post by MikeD

Post by Dan
How about baiting the troll in someone else's thread then?

It's not YOUR thread. The newsgroups are public. Basically, it's the
entire world's thread. But I do agree that the best way to deal with
trolls (in general) is to ignore them. If they can't get a reaction from
people, they'll just leave.

Mike, I wasn't trying to assert that I own USENET in general or this
newsgroup in particular. Sorry if my post came across as harsh. I started
this thread trying to find a solution to a real problem some of my users are
having. Perhaps it would have been better to simply state "let's please
keep the thread on topic".

[J French]

Post by Dan

Post by MikeD

Post by Dan
How about baiting the troll in someone else's thread then?

It's not YOUR thread. The newsgroups are public. Basically, it's the
entire world's thread. But I do agree that the best way to deal with
trolls (in general) is to ignore them. If they can't get a reaction from
people, they'll just leave.

Mike, I wasn't trying to assert that I own USENET in general or this
newsgroup in particular. Sorry if my post came across as harsh. I started
this thread trying to find a solution to a real problem some of my users are
having. Perhaps it would have been better to simply state "let's please
keep the thread on topic".

Dan, this thread has had it for any serious discussion
- start a new one

Incidentally, if the problem only occurs on 1% of your users systems,
then it is probably some AV / Firewall / Network problem

- especially if the whole machine becomes unresponsive

[TedF]

Perhaps it would have been better to simply state "let's please keep the
thread on topic".

I thought Billy boy has the thickest head there is.

Post by MikeD

Post by Dan
How about baiting the troll in someone else's thread then?

It's not YOUR thread. The newsgroups are public. Basically, it's the
entire world's thread. But I do agree that the best way to deal with
trolls (in general) is to ignore them. If they can't get a reaction from
people, they'll just leave.

Mike, I wasn't trying to assert that I own USENET in general or this
newsgroup in particular. Sorry if my post came across as harsh. I
started this thread trying to find a solution to a real problem some of my
users are having. Perhaps it would have been better to simply state
"let's please keep the thread on topic".

[J French]

Post by TedF

Perhaps it would have been better to simply state "let's please keep the
thread on topic".

I thought Billy boy has the thickest head there is.

I once saw a printout of Billy Boy's code

Back around 1983

It was a CP/M implementation of MS BASIC with some tweaks for a well
known Jap company.

[Scherbina Vladimir]

I even did not exist in 1983 :)
--
Vladimir

Post by J French

Post by TedF

Perhaps it would have been better to simply state "let's please keep the
thread on topic".

I thought Billy boy has the thickest head there is.

I once saw a printout of Billy Boy's code
Back around 1983
It was a CP/M implementation of MS BASIC with some tweaks for a well
known Jap company.

[Paul Baker]

I was 9. That was a couple of years before I started doing any programming
of any kind, I think :)

Post by Scherbina Vladimir
I even did not exist in 1983 :)
--
Vladimir

Post by J French

Post by TedF

Perhaps it would have been better to simply state "let's please keep the
thread on topic".

I thought Billy boy has the thickest head there is.

I once saw a printout of Billy Boy's code
Back around 1983
It was a CP/M implementation of MS BASIC with some tweaks for a well
known Jap company.

[Bob O`Bob]

Subject: Re: System locks up until InternetOpenURL call completes
Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 09:05:20 -0800
Lines: 27
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670
X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Original
Newsgroups: microsoft.public.inetsdk.programming.wininet,microsoft.public.vb.general.discussion
NNTP-Posting-Host: pool-71-105-86-157.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net 71.105.86.157
There are two types of programmers.
1) Knows Windows or operating system very well, then became a programmer.
2) Became a programmer with very little Windows knowledge.
The first would be a pro, the second will limp and needs
to be directed all the way through.
You and Dan fall in the second category, you still got lots to learn yet.
And I know many like you ad Dan.

Hilarious.
I'm quoting mostly so you can't ever get all traces removed from google, etc.



Bob
(turned pro long before Micro-Soft ever heard of a GUI)
--

[J French]

On Mon, 20 Feb 2006 17:01:20 -0800, Bob O`Bob
<snip>

Post by Bob O`Bob

Post by TedF
There are two types of programmers.
1) Knows Windows or operating system very well, then became a programmer.
2) Became a programmer with very little Windows knowledge.
The first would be a pro, the second will limp and needs
to be directed all the way through.
You and Dan fall in the second category, you still got lots to learn yet.
And I know many like you ad Dan.

Hilarious.
I'm quoting mostly so you can't ever get all traces removed from google, etc.

Can one know an OS well without being a coder ?

Normally coders dig into the language, then the OS

- is TedF some sort of support person who has learnt JavaScript ?

C'mon Troll - nice bait ... come and get it .. the thread is yours

[Paul Baker]

I am a programmer who routinely digs into the details of the OS. Without a
good knowledge of the OS, you're never going to be able to write effective
software.

Sometimes, canned components provided by the development tools or third
parties do not work as you would like or miss out on advanced features of
Windows. So, I go directly to MSDN Online Library and find out what Windows
is capable of doing. If the canned component doesn't allow it, then it's the
canned component's fault!

Paul

Post by J French
On Mon, 20 Feb 2006 17:01:20 -0800, Bob O`Bob
<snip>

Post by Bob O`Bob

Post by TedF
There are two types of programmers.
1) Knows Windows or operating system very well, then became a programmer.
2) Became a programmer with very little Windows knowledge.
The first would be a pro, the second will limp and needs
to be directed all the way through.
You and Dan fall in the second category, you still got lots to learn yet.
And I know many like you ad Dan.

Hilarious.
I'm quoting mostly so you can't ever get all traces removed from google, etc.

Can one know an OS well without being a coder ?
Normally coders dig into the language, then the OS
- is TedF some sort of support person who has learnt JavaScript ?
C'mon Troll - nice bait ... come and get it .. the thread is yours

[Dan]

Post by TedF
You can call any support, they all ask to clear the
temp files first before going any further, if you don't
know that by now, then you are very ignorant.

Yes, I've had support techs suggest just that many times. And guess what,
they were wrong.

Post by TedF
You have zero experience in computers, you are not fit to be
a programmers, give support, or even be any where around
computers.

Actually, I've been coding professionally for 11 years, sell my own software
product and earn well six figures. I must know something. I certainly know
that you sound like an arrogant 13 year old script kiddie who can't spell
"dumb" nor resist using exclamation points as the letter "I".

Post by TedF
You have lots to learn, so don't make a fool out of
yourself and the ones trying to help you.

Yes, responding to the likes of you is indeed foolish. I'll add you to my
kill file and stop responding.

[TedF]

Post by Dan
Actually, I've been coding professionally for 11 years,

Doesn't mean you know anything about computers.

Post by Dan
Yes, I've had support techs suggest just that many times. And guess what,
they were wrong.

You got lots to learn yet.

Post by Dan

Post by TedF
You can call any support, they all ask to clear the
temp files first before going any further, if you don't
know that by now, then you are very ignorant.

Yes, I've had support techs suggest just that many times. And guess what,
they were wrong.

Post by TedF
You have zero experience in computers, you are not fit to be
a programmers, give support, or even be any where around
computers.

Actually, I've been coding professionally for 11 years, sell my own
software product and earn well six figures. I must know something. I
certainly know that you sound like an arrogant 13 year old script kiddie
who can't spell "dumb" nor resist using exclamation points as the letter
"I".

Post by TedF
You have lots to learn, so don't make a fool out of
yourself and the ones trying to help you.

Yes, responding to the likes of you is indeed foolish. I'll add you to my
kill file and stop responding.